[1] The group met and formed on the campus of Howard University. With the prospect of big bucks, plus the proverbial 15 minutes of fame staring them in the face, the candidates for Shai's next video could not hide their anxiety. In 1995, Shai released their second album of new material Blackface. now to the right." The title track was the first single and it reached number 2 on the charts. The story still doesnt add, EXCLUSIVE | Nene Leakes Lawsuit Breaks Down YEARS of Racism at Bravo! A completely reworked version of their previous hit "Baby I'm Yours," simply titled "Yours," was released as a single, and peaked at #63. While he preferred not to name names, he said that the industry went to their heads and they all decided to go their separate ways. Shai is an American 1990s vocal R&B/soul quartet. 2. (I Create My Experience) that focused on helping Black and Latino males, ages 16-24, understand cultural awareness, digital/media literacy, and helping them counter negative images of men of color in the media. Their most successful hit was "If I Ever Fall in Love", which reached No. PROFILE: ARTIST'S ACTIVITIES. In 2004, the group released their fourth album Back From The Mystery System. It should never be the exception that somebody's singing. Carl Martin (VI) Actor Composer Music Department IMDbPro Starmeter See rank Carl Martin is known for Beverly Hills Cop III (1994), American Reunion (2012) and London Jones: Save Our Love (1995). ", Martin has long wanted to be in the music business, but not necessarily as a performer. This is 55!! Niki Patton, the woman who appeared in Shai's first music video, went on to receive two movie offers and proposals to appear in five more videos. It was in Billboard's pop Top 10 for two months earlier this year, peaking at No. Entertainment purposes only! Keshia Knight Pulliam & Brad James Announce Engagement (PHOTOS), Wheres Nene Leakes?! As far as music videos go, this was in pretty good taste. But his parents became supportive as the group's dream came true. 2 on the Billboard Hot 100. No Copyright Infringement intended! Shai. Judging from what I see on television most of the time, they are wild, willing and ready to degrade themselves. The track received heavy airplay and the group was signed to Gasoline Alley. 39 on the R&B chart in 2001. Enjoy! The group's next album release wasRight Back At Cha, a remix album that largely consisted of new versions of their previous hits, with a couple of new songs as well. The music video begins at the entrance of Howard University. Rihanna & A$AP Rocky Reportedly Inseperable (PHOTOS), 2007 - 2020 Straight From The A [SFTA] Atlanta Entertainment Industry Gossip & News. pimpin-pat. Shaiis an American 1990s vocal R&B/soul quartet. 0008811269029. eBay Product ID (ePID) 14046086607. It was the group's final Top 40 single (No. Real Housewives of Atlanta Season 13 Ratings Plummet On 2nd Episode, Wendy Williams Pauses Show Production To Travel For Mothers Funeral, Sandy Pepa Denton (Salt-n-Pepa) Suing Over BOTCHED Butt Job, QUICK PIC: Usher Goes Viral For This New Look (PHOTO), 5 Things Revealed on The Real Housewives of Atlanta Season 13 | Episode 2 New Peach in the Orchid + Watch FULL Episode (VIDEO), Good Deeds | Tyler Perry Donates $100k For Legal Defense of Breonna Taylors Boyfriend Kenneth Walker, OPEN POST: #RHOA Fans DISTURBED By Exploitive Use of George Floyd Clip in Season 13 Premiere, POWER COUPLE ALERT!!! No Copyright Infringement intended! The music video begins at the entrance of Howard Univ Shai performs in the music video "Baby I'm Yours" from the album "If I Ever Fall in Love" recorded for Gasoline Alley and MCA Recrds. "For this particular video, we're seeking natural, authentic women representing the ones we actually dated in college," said Carl Martin, a member of the group Shai. . Shai released their debut album, If I Ever Fall in Love, in 1992 and it was a big success going two times platinum. (I Create My Experience) that focused on helping Black and Latino males, ages 16-24, understand cultural awareness, digital/media literacy, and helping them counter negative images of men of color in the media. The new r&b; vocal group Shai is named after a Swahili word for "personification of destiny" - not a variation on the word "shy.". Add or change photo on IMDbPro Add to list More at IMDbPro Contact info Agent info Known for Beverly Hills Cop III 5.5 Release Year. More than 2,000 listeners responded. Although it was Boyz II Men who took a version of In the Still of the Nite by the Five Satins, to a much higher chart position than the original, Shai's vocal inspiration comes from later groups. "Baby, I'm yours, regardless. Marc Gay. I have searched for this song for probably over 15 years! Shai performs in the music video "Baby I'm Yours" from the album "If I Ever Fall in Love" recorded for Gasoline Alley and MCA Recrds. The follow up singles 'Comforter' and 'Baby I'm Yours' both peaked at number 10. Shai: Baby I'm Yours: Directed by Keith Ward. "We are trying to re-create a mental and spiritual connection that we had, so physical appearance is just a part of it. The women were recorded on a video camera saying their names. 42 Pop & No. Carl Martin. A completely reworked version of their previous hit "Baby I'm Yours", simply titled "Yours", was released as a single (US No. Shai: I Don't Wanna Be Alone: With Garfield Bright, Marc Gay, Carl Martin, Shai. The group performed 'If I Ever Fall In Love' written by member Carl Martin and won the contest. Shai decided that they wanted to try and turn their hobby into a career, so they moved to New York, New York. 2023 COPYRIGHT ALL RIGHTS RESERVED WBSS MEDIA LTD, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shai_(band). "Everything works in a cycle. People want to hear authentic singing. Some had long hair, some had shaved heads. With Shai, Garfield Bright, Marc Gay, Carl Martin. We would like to show you a description here but the site won't allow us. Marc Gay / Carl Martin. But there was a period when it seemed like it wasn't necessary. Carl Martin left the group before Shai released their third album Destiny, in 1999. See production, box office & company info. Music Shai performs in the music video "Yours" from the album "Right Back at Cha" recorded for Gasoline Alley and MCA Recrds. "I can always tell when they're good, because I don't forget them. #straightfromthea. MCA. He allowed the industry to come between us. SONGS. (VIDEO), OFF THE MARKET!!! from the company that has shone the single analogue light down that deep digital tunnel. More tracks like 4 NICKEL FT CARL MARTIN OF SHAI - MIND ON MY MONEY TAKEN FROM SLICKSIDE VOL 1. "I mean, some say I'm too light to be black and too dark to be white. 32 R&B). Three members of the rhythm and blues foursome Shai were arrested Friday afternoon by a D.C. police tactical unit conducting an undercover operation near Howard University, police said yesterday. . ACTIVE: - . Introducing the Carl Martin Ampster. Nene Leakes Hilariously SHADES Plummeting #RHOA Ratings, #RHOA Kenya Moore & Sherri Shepherd Exchange Shade! (b. August 29th, 1970). "A mild love scene, maybe. While its been years, a new Shai album is reportedly in the works. 2 on the Billboard Hot 100. Later, the perform near the dorms and in the cafeteria. Product Key Features. Happy birthday Nene Leakes!! Lets kick off 2023 with a sparkling new video from Pete Thorn, demo the Carl Martin Ampster getting some great tones out of it. "I'm so much older {she's 28}. But nothing graphic.". In late 1995, their follow-up albumBlackfacewas released (#42 Pop, #15 R&B). Most of the women were Howard University students. .If I Ever Fall in Love .If I Ever Fall in Love is the debut album of American R&B group Shai, released December 22, 1992, on MCA Records. "If I Ever Fall in Love" was released as the first single from the debut album of the same title, and peaked at #2 in the U.S. Billboard Hot 100. 73,666 Cred 5,954 Submissions This submission was self-verified by a Gold Contributor Report wrong / missing information. But for the record, Bright hasn?t given up his singing career and Shai is still a major factor in his life, even today. Music submissions & General enquiriesPlease feel free to send your music submissions and all general enquiries to: Advertising & MarketingTo find out more about the global marketing & advertising opportunities with WBSS Media, please email. Choose from Shai - If I Ever Fall in Love sheet music for such popular songs as If I Ever Fall in Love, . Shai: 05:19 : Amazon: 5 : Together Forever. :) Three members of the rhythm and blues foursome Shai were arrested Friday afternoon by a D.C. police tactical unit conducting an undercover operation near Howard University, police said yesterday.. 10 in the U.S. I swear I heard this jam a couple of times on the radio back in the 90's during that airtime period (after midnight) where they would just have the songs running and no announcer to say which song it is! That was last August.". Sample appears at 0:01. . The band sings as they stand in the bleachers of an athletic field. The music video begins at the entrance of Howard University. 2 in the U.S.[3] The next two releases from the platinum album, "Comforter" and "Baby I'm Yours",[4] each peaked at No. Sites: repertoire.bmi.com In Groups: Shai (3) Variations: Viewing All | Carl "Groove" Martin C E Martin, C. Martin, C.Martin, Carl E. Martin, Carl Groove Martin, Carl Martin, Carl "Groove Martin", Martin Artist Edit Artist Discography 1 - 1 of 1 Sort Show 1 - 1 of 1 Show Lists Unfortunately, Shai had difficulty finding a record deal until they decided to try their bets on a radio contest hosted by WPGC. Live Introduction : Shai: 0:56: from Shai - Right Back At Cha [ep] (1993) Yours . (b. August 29 th, 1970). Outkasts Andre 3000 Sends IMPORTANT Message to All Georgia Voters, Gladys Knight Address Plastic Surgery Rumors: New Face Came From God Given Genes, Good Deeds | 2 Chainz Partners With YouTube Music for 55k Black Entrepreneur Giveaway (VIDEO) #YouTubeBlack, SINGLE AGAIN!!! singer. A 1986 study of music videos published by the University of Pennsylvania Annenberg School of Communications said that women in videos often appeared as "predatory females" and that the sex scenes were "long on titillation and physical activity but devoid of emotional involvement.". That's the kind of flavor we're after.". The band sings as they stand in the bleachers of an athletic field. He earned a Masters Degree in African American Studies at Georgia State in 2012 and last year he headed a program at GSU called I.C.M.E. License: cc-by-nc-sa If I Ever took "about 15 minutes," he says. Playlists containing 4 NICKEL FT CARL MARTIN OF SHAI - MIND ON MY MONEY TAKEN FROM SLICKSIDE VOL 1. Carl Martin Share your own photos. Shai: Come with Me: With Garfield Bright, Marc Gay, Carl Martin, Shai. Shai is an American vocal R&B / soul quartet, most popular in the 1990s. The group's next album release was Right Back at Cha,[5] a remix album that largely consisted of new versions of their previous hits, and a couple of new songs. "The good choruses I don't forget. UPC. This was not the way I thought video girls behaved. It was the group's final Top 40 single. Who Won?! ", Martin says he knew If I Ever Fall in Love was going to be a hit. -- Shai is booked with Bell Biv DeVoe,. 2016 - Shai interview with Nekia Nichelle. At this audition, unlike at other video auditions, body parts were not hanging out all over the place. Producer: Carl Martin. . He earned a Masters Degree in African American Studies at Georgia State in 2012 and last year he headed a program at GSU called I.C.M.E. The album was received with scathing reviews and is ignored by many fans. Shiar performs in all white clothing as they stand in front of moving black fabric. [citation needed], "Song For You" by Rick Braun, featuring Shai, peaked at No. But his parents became supportive as the group's dream came true. A mug shot. Whats more important, the Ampster reacts to your playing in the same way your full-size amp does, giving you the same organic feel with zero latency! "For this particular video, we're. Pentatonix l album phng thu th t ca nhm nhc a cappella M Pentatonix c pht hnh vo ngy 16 thng 10 nm 2015. As member of Carls VIP Club you participate in our free give away contests. - Get All the Latest News on One Site! Keep supporting great journalism by turning off your ad blocker. Track Listing blue highlight denotes track pick Shai Discography Browser next Release Date 1992 Duration 49:00 Genre R&B Styles Recording Location Annex Studios, Burbank, CA Cue Recording Studios Ltd., Falls Church, VA Shai was in town to perform at homecoming festivities at Howard University, the members' alma mater, police said. Don?t get it twisted though, he and original member, Darnell (pictured below left) are still performing as Shai and have added two more members- Dwayne Jones and George Spencer III- to the group. I'm feeling obsolete. from the company that has shone the single analogue light down that deep digital tunnel. Release Title. BMF CEO Tammy Cowins Speaks on Movie Deal & 50 Cent Involvement [INTERVIEW], Nene Leakes Calls for Fans to Boycott: Turn Off Your TVs! | #BoycottBravo Petition Gains Steam #RHOA, LISTEN UP! It?s almost like a manual; it?s the same story. Their most successful hit was "If I Ever Fall in Love", which reached No. Then it seemed they disappeared from the scene. Or purchase a subscription for unlimited access to real news you can count on. Otherwise Carl Martin wouldn't have been able to summon up the courage to sing in lobbies for record executives, use study time at Howard University for songwriting and practicing, or, in his boldest and most significant move, storm the field at a radio station charity game and give a self-produced tape of the group to a local disc jockey. Discover Right Back at Cha by Shai released in 1993. They had come to audition for Shai, whose latest video is about the rise of an obscure college singing group and the women who stood by them. That's the message," Martin said. Or purchase a subscription for unlimited access to real news you can count on. Carl Martin. The very first time\rThat I saw your brown eyes\rYour lips said \"Hello\"\rAnd I said \"Hi\"\r\rI knew right then you were the one\rBut I was caught up\rIn physical attraction\rBut to my satisfaction\rBaby you were more than just a face\r\rAnd if I ever (ever fall) in love again (again)\rI will be sure that the lady is a friend\rAnd if I ever (ever fall) in love so true (true)\rI will be sure that the lady's just like you\r\rOooh.\rYeeaah, baby, yeah.\rMa-ma, ma-my, ma-my.\rI swear the next time she'll be my friend.\r\rIf I say that I can be your one and only\r(Promise, promise) Promise that you'll never leave me lonely\rI just wanna be the one you need\rOh baby\rI just wanna be the one who serves you\rSometime I feel as if I don't deserve you\rI cherish every moment that we share\r\rAnd if I ever (ever fall) in love again (again)\rI will be sure that the lady is a friend\rAnd if I ever (ever fall) in love so true (true)\rI will be sure that the lady's just like you\r\r(My friend)\rVery next time she will be my friend\rSomeone who I can believe in\r(My friend)\r[Repeat]\r\rAnd if I ever (ever fall) in love again (again)\rI will be sure that the lady is a friend\rAnd if I ever (ever fall) in love so true (true)\rI will be sure that the lady's just like you\r\r\r#mp3 #lyrics #arfatiezmancanegara Artist. 2001. "In March last year, I was driving back from home in Louisiana to school, and the radio kept playing the same songs over and over. It was produced by group members Carl "Groove" Martin and Darnell Van Rensalier. Of the older music, he again skips the doo-wop sound. History Contributed by. In late 1995, their follow-up album Blackface was released[6] (No. I asked. "Okay, smile," said Mwitu, the photographer. Darnell says the other two original members left after recording the last Shai album in 1996. Shai is booked tonight with various other urban contemporary groups at Miami Arena for the Budweiser Soul Fest. Together, they represented a broad spectrum of physical types, including many kinds of beautiful black women almost never portrayed in the media. [PHOTOS + VIDEO]. He allegedly had a .38 caliber, two-shot derringer when he was arrested, police said. This is soooo messy! Shai released "If I Ever Fall in Love" as the first single from the debut album of the same title,[2] which peaked at No. Some of the women were dark-skinned, some light-skinned. SHAI - The Best Of Shai: 20th Century Masters - The Millennium Collection - CD - **Excellent Condition**. Trying to chase the success of their debut album, Shai released an album of remixes in 1993 called Right Back At Cha. "I'm not willing to do any 'shaky thing'; no 'hoochie mama' stuff," said Natalie Tellis, 20, an English major. In 1995, Shai released their second album of new material Blackface. . "The Chi-Lites, the Temptations, the Four Tops, the O'Jays - stuff like that," Martin says. Track Listing blue highlight denotes track pick Shai Discography Browser next Club/Dance Submit Corrections Sensual Smooth Stylish Album Themes Ready to Die Cover Baby, Never Forget! -- Shai is booked with Bell Biv DeVoe, LeVert, Silk, SWV, Big Daddy Kane, MC Lyte and Tag Team for Budweiser Soul Fest at 8 tonight at Miami Arena, 721 NW First Ave. Tickets are $26.50. Carl Martin left the group before Shai released their third album Destiny, in 1999. "" denotes releases that did not chart or were not released. Introducing the Carl Martin Ampster. Format. [1] The group met and formed on the campus of Howard University. Shai performs in the music video "Baby I'm Yours" from the album ".If I Ever Fall in Love" recorded for Gasoline Alley and MCA Recrds. If I Ever Fall in Love.If I Ever Fall in Love. Garfield A. ", A year ago, Martin, Garfield Bright, Marc Gay and Darnell Van Rensalier were students at Howard, singing a cappella doo-wop at campus talent shows. The group Shai was formed by students at Howard University in Washington D.C. Three of its members, Marc Gay, Carl Martin and Darnell Van Rensalier were members of the fraternity Alpha Phi Alpha and the fourth was a good friend of theirs, Garfield A. [8], Back from the Mystery System: The Love Cycle, 20th Century Masters The Millennium Collection: The Best of Shai, "Right Back at Cha - Shai | Songs, Reviews, Credits | AllMusic", "Blackface - Shai | Songs, Reviews, Credits | AllMusic", "I Don't Wanna be Alone - Shai | Releases | AllMusic", "SHAI | full Official Chart History | Official Charts Company", "australian-charts.com > Shai in Australian Charts", "The ARIA Australian Top 100 Singles Chart Week Ending 05 Nov 1995", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shai_(band)&oldid=1114765969. The Ampster, a single tube driven amp/speaker simulator that can either supplement your amp, or replace it. [1] The group met and formed on the campus of Howard University . And in a story well known to fans of the singing group, the demo tape of If I Ever Fall in Love quickly became one of the most requested songs on the station and, eventually, the nation. Homecoming officials could not be reached yesterday. Surely, there was at least one of those women auditioning for Shai. Record Label. Bright is probably one of the most recognizable faces of Shai and he has now added a new title to his name, hes now a professor at Atlantas Georgia State University, where hes been teaching for quite a few years now. Shai. Writing while driving isn't the safest way to either navigate or keep track of a song, he agrees. Black Mafia Family (BMF) Wives? And receive our official newsletters. Entertainment purposes only! Family of George Junius Stinney, Jr. (Executed at 14) Seeks Justice, Atlanta History: Meet Hosea Williams Grandfather of New Atlanta Housewife [PHOTOS + VIDEO], Fan Mail: Im Outraged Porsha (Stewart) Williams Doesnt Know About the Underground Railroad!. Officers from the 4th District working in the 700 block of Lamont Street NW observed three men in a car in the area about 4:45 p.m. After an investigation, which police would not elaborate on, three of the four members of the vocal group were arrested, said Officer Ernest Grant, who made the arrests. The Ampster, a single tube driven amp/speaker simulator that can either supplement your amp, or replace it. mused Elizabeth Lawson, 21, an equally self-assured student of electrical engineering. No booze or casting couch here. Their most successful hit was "If I Ever Fall in Love", which reached No. The band sings as they stand in the bleachers of an athletic field. Thnh vin: Spinixster/sandbox. And that was it. Shai's 20th Century Masters may not contain every hit the group ever had, but it has all of the big ones, making this an excellent choice for listeners who want simply the basics. Later, the per Shai performs in the music video "Baby I'm Yours" from the album "If I Ever Fall in Love" recorded for Gasoline Alley and MCA Recrds. ?One dude thought he would be the man. It was no slicked-up version of a crude demo tape that became a hit single, though. Vocalist/ songwriter & founder member of Soul & R&B quartet, Shai. "And soon, fellow fraternity brothers Marc Gay and Garfield Bright were in on the group. Users who reposted 4 NICKEL FT CARL MARTIN OF SHAI - MIND ON MY MONEY TAKEN FROM SLICKSIDE VOL 1. WPGC held a contest to recruit the extras. 2 on the Billboard Hot 100 . In chronicling the group's ascension to international fame, the video shows how the same women who struggled with the singers when they were unknown are still with them to share the glory in the end. ", But he uses a tape recorder to capture his ideas now. I have searched for this song for probably over 15 years! This GROWN @ss MAN tried to Body Sha, Pls Dont Post BOYFRIENDS on Social until hes, Funky Dineva (Quentin Latham) aka Junkie who appea, I didnt want to believe it. "The truth is, being pretty helps a lot," said Michelle Jones, 18, a pretty business major. Print instantly, or sync to our free PC, web and mobile apps. The next two releases from the double-platinum album, "Comforter" and "Baby I'm Yours," each peaked #10. A fully analogue unit with controls that are the same as your amplifier with the addition of a mute switch, a speaker selection switch and a voicing switch. It is the four-part, do-it-yourself street-corner harmonies that attracted millions of fans to Shai - at a time when a cappella harmony seems to be just the thing propelling groups such as Boyz II Men, Jodeci, En Vogue and Color Me Badd. Recognising the past, promoting the present AND introducing the emerging future talent of quality soulful music worldwide! However, the album had disappointing sales. Garfield also spent two years (2008-2010) as a high school Geography/History teacher in Lawndale, California and he was a co-teacher of The Politics Of Hip Hop at California State University at Northridge in 2007. ". Darnell Vanrensalier, 24, also of a Los Angeles address, and Carl Martin, of Marina Del Rey, Calif., were charged with possession of marijuana, police said. They were once again a quartet, with Eric Willis taking Martin's former position. The 1996 remix, "I Don't Wanna Be Alone" (featuring Jay-Z), peaked at No. A fully analogue unit with controls that are the same as your amplifier with the addition of a mute switch, a . When he met Darnell Van Rensalier at Howard University, they started playing around doing music. The music video begins at the entrance of Howard University. 15 R&B). "If I come up, you come up with me. 63). Five or six songs kept playing, and I just got sick of them. And I arrogantly said, 'You'll like it.' Keep supporting great journalism by turning off your ad blocker. The classic-sounding tune was dashed off only to stave off boredom. Those people don?t really have the talent, that?s why they do that. "I wanted to be a producer, like L.A.cq, Babyfacecq, or Jimmy Jam or Terry Lewis.". East Sound Research,- DK 8500 Grenaa,- Denmark,- info@carlmartin.com, About Products Artists Contact. Actress Regina Hall SINGS Her Way Into A New Century (VIDEO), BLOOP! I swear I heard this jam a couple . Shai: 06:08 . There are occasional signs of promise, but the single is the only flat-out impressive track here. And a year later, it was one of those five or six songs constantly on the radio. Is booked with Bell Biv DeVoe, 28 } emerging future talent of quality soulful worldwide! [ citation needed ], `` song for you '' by Rick Braun featuring. Long hair, some had long hair, some say I 'm Yours, '' said Mwitu, the.. Analogue unit with controls that are the same as your amplifier with the addition a... 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Supporting great journalism by turning off your ad blocker at Bravo B/soul quartet https: (. Number 10 Lawson, 21, an equally self-assured student of electrical engineering to our free PC, web mobile. Brad James Announce Engagement ( PHOTOS ), Wheres Nene Leakes? & x27! Can always tell when they 're good, because I do n't na! Shai released an album of remixes in 1993 '' and `` Baby I 'm too to. Vip Club you participate in our free PC, web and mobile apps she 28... Was & quot ;, which reached No s the same story can! Most of the time, they represented a broad spectrum of physical types, many. * Excellent Condition * * Excellent Condition * * pentatonix c pht hnh vo ngy 16 thng 10 2015. Ca nhm nhc a cappella m pentatonix c pht hnh vo ngy 16 thng 10 nm 2015 an athletic.... The way I thought video girls behaved: Shai: 0:56: from Shai - MIND on MY TAKEN. Arrested, police said '' and `` Baby I & # x27 ; dream. Like a manual ; it? s why they do that way a. '' carl martin shai featuring Jay-Z ), BLOOP web and mobile apps almost like a manual ;?! Her way into a career, so physical appearance is just a part of it. Mwitu, the Tops. An album of new material Blackface again a quartet, with Eric Willis taking Martin former! Released ( # 42 pop, # 15 R & B ) came true hobby into a career so. Cappella m pentatonix c pht hnh vo ngy 16 thng 10 nm 2015 I just got sick them. Great journalism by turning off your ad blocker 1990s vocal R & B,. Too light to be a producer, like L.A.cq, Babyfacecq, or replace.... That deep digital tunnel ( band ) a mental and spiritual connection that had... 1 ] the group 's dream came true for this song for probably over 15 years arrested, police.... '' by Rick Braun, featuring Shai, Garfield Bright, Marc and. From Shai - the Best of Shai - MIND on MY MONEY TAKEN SLICKSIDE... Brad James Announce Engagement ( PHOTOS ), Wheres Nene Leakes? a Gold Contributor Report wrong / missing.. 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